[17.05.2012] #8 GP Belgii

Ja się nie pojawię - w piątek dzień później mam koło i będę się musiał uczyć.

Bulbinek napisał:Ja się nie pojawię - w piątek dzień później mam koło i będę się musiał uczyć.

Kolo lolo.

Zgłaszam incydenty:
1 okr. - 1 zakręt - Pingu wstrzymuje kilku pierwszych kierowców po uderzeniu w bandę i nie przepuszcza ich (z wyjątkiem Mike'a).
12 okr. - wyjazd z pitlane - kierowcy STR przekraczają białą linie, mimo przejeżdżających obok zawodników McLarena
33 okr. - wyjazd z pitlane - Pingu ponownie ignoruje białą linię
35 okr. - Pikey nie puszcza podczas dublowania
36 okr. - arsen36 nie puszcza podczas dublowania

twierdzisz ze nie puściłem wtedy ciebie czy domana?

Zgłaszam incydenty:
9 okr. - wyjazd z pitlane - Pikey przekracza białą linię, mimo przejeżdżającego mnie
9 okr. nawrót - Pikey uderza we mnie, przez co wyjeżdżam poza optymalny tor jazdy, a on nie oddaje pozycji

"12 okr. - wyjazd z pitlane - kierowcy STR przekraczają białą linie, mimo przejeżdżających obok zawodników McLarena"

pingu and me, both exit the pit the way it was allowed, i think.
because i saw so many people doing it in race 1 of the season, i asked if that kind of exiting is allowed...and someone said yes.

rules say...forbidden: if a player leaves the pit lane and other passing by, one of the drivers crossing the white line and prevent an opponent

passing by is of course relative, so it could maybe not just be meant as the "passing by after crossing the white line". it could be meant in a way..that wokinger would have maybe passed me/be at least < 1 carlength behind me after end of white line in case i would have chosen the slower line (not crossing white line).

but also for that case i asked in begin of the season and i was told it was allowed to cross white line in that case.

edit..i tested and the slower line was 1 sec slower on first try, taking into account the acceleration to topspeed for the straight...
so both me and pingu would have been passed likely, i can imagine.
either way...in case i was told wrong and it is forbidden, there would be still a leak in the rule forcing a player to drive the slow line out of pits even there is really no car around him, but there is a car fighting with him, being on similar racetotaltime level - and i.e. wokinger did not choose the slow line there as well.

I think that rule is very open to interpretation.. either say white line is just there as a "guide", or say its illegal to ever cross white line.

Is this real or another stupid joke? There were like 2-4 carlenghts space. And the rule says only if hes passing you, which means someone would need to be next to you. Not 3 carlengths in front of the back. You woudn't even be in my slipstream if there was one. And still even if I waited 5 secs before I would cross that line, I would have taken the position easy with fresh tires. I dont know the english translation but in dutch we say this is like fucking ants.

And at that first corner, many many worse corner blocking happened this season (not by me). If I complained for all this silly things in the season until now I would have a HUGE list. In Monaco Kryhmen crashed me super hard twice jsut from pilediving me from the back and didn't let me pass. BUt no no no You guys only want to punish people if you can benefit from it.

Edit:

Btw there is always HUGE lag at the start for 2-3 seconds. That was also the only reason i hit the apex to hard. But yea, punish us for it. If you want to win that way

Pingu napisał: BUt no no no You guys only want to punish people if you can benefit from it.

actually i even thought until last race, if there were incidents, you HAVE to report it.
then i read the rules again and read "if there are irregularities in the rules..." and it felt like that was only meant for the rules page. so..unless no one complains about my edgy blocks i did in race, i likely wont report the blocks i got either.

anyways, was a nice race - surely would have liked to see pingu letting pass all though...since he actually kinda made all cars crash lol. i would have had let pass all there, i guess..
coming back and getting 4th or so woulda been cool.

Wokinger napisał:
35 okr. - Pikey nie puszcza podczas dublowania

Nie mam sobiew nic do zarzucenia. Domana puściłem bezproblemowo, zanim w lusterku pokazałesm i się Ty, byłem chwilowo tak samo szybki, w regulaminie jest napisane, jeśli dublujący jest wolniejszy nie muszę go przepuszczać. Dopiero po chwili jak się zbliżyłeś oddałem pozycje.

Zgłaszam incydenty:
9 okr. - wyjazd z pitlane - Pikey przekracza białą linię, mimo przejeżdżającego mnie
9 okr. nawrót - Pikey uderza we mnie, przez co wyjeżdżam poza optymalny tor jazdy, a on nie oddaje pozycji

Już ci napisałem na gadu co o tym sądze i zdania nie zmieniam, drugi raz nie chce mi się tego pisać. Jak nie potrafisz wygrać lub zrewanżować się w normalny sposób to składaj jakieś chore protesty. Jestem przekonany, że nie jako jedyny zrobiłem coś takiego, ale nie musisz się uczepić...

I hope I am writing this in the right place.
After doing the whole season in GP2 this was my first full F1 race. I really enjoyed it however I can see that I still need to improve a lot. Not so much in 1 lap pace, although I messed up my qualifying laps, but I need to get better at race consistency.
I hope to continue racing in the future and thank you all for the racing. I hope I didn't get in anyone's way when they lapped me

Wygląda na to, że nie znam reguł. Faktycznie, zgodnie z regulaminem te wyjazdy na tor były czyste. Natomiast odnośnie innych incydentów:
1 okr. - 1 zakręt - Tłumaczenie się lagiem jest idiotyczne. Jeżeli ZAWSZE taki się pojawia to dlaczego tego wcześniej nie zgłosiłeś?
Druga rzecz: fakt że popełniłeś wykroczenie jest bezsprzeczny. Pozycje masz oddać nie dlatego, że to był Twój błąd, tylko dlatego, że inni na tym ucierpieli.
Trzecia rzecz: puszczając tylko swojego partnera z zespołu wyglądało to co najmniej żałośnie.
35 okr. - Pikey - w ogóle nie zjechałeś z linii, był kontakt, zostałem wybity z rytmu i w następnie zaliczyłem trawkę. Nie widzę tam momentu, gdy nie byłem szybszy, bo dochodziłem Cię w każdym zakręcie.
36 okr. - arsen36 - tutaj zarzut jest mniejszy, bo nie chodzi tyle o blokowanie co nie zjechanie z optymalnej linii, a co za tym idzie zmuszenie mnie do straty czasu. Oczywiście w porównaniu do Pikey'a ten incydent jest dużo łagodniejszy.

The lag? I think this has been reported enough times? Why would I have to report it everytime, I it just a given and why would I annoy everyone with more cry, because it cannot be removed anyway? And the servers are perfect since you host apart from the first 15 secs for me somehow. But compared to domans server your server is a gods heaven lol, (which you can clearly see on my pace / results, since you started hosting :p).

Second I didn't let Mike pass on purpose, he was just suddenly next to me with more speed on my pc (warpz). Furthermore during the race I didn't even notice the accident was ""that heavy"". In older races you can see I let people pass for way lighter things.

Third punish me quickly for this first corner accident please, so we can get over with this. You got to win the constructors championship somehow.

Cheers

my suggestion for punishing pingu...
maybe considering he wuoldnt have pitstopped in end just to hunt fastest lap (in order to get a maybe more realistic "what would have been"-result which "might" seem more fair than just taking away xy seconds as punishment from his actual racetotaltime)

1)

pingus laptimes (before last "unnecessary" pitstop)
44.661 43.854 43.765 43.848 44.254 44.173c 44.194

mike in same laps
44.152 43.491 43.292 43.711 43.536 44.020 43.357

-0.51 -0.36 -0.46 -0.14 -0.72 -0.15 -0.84

5 laps to go (i made 1.5 sec crash or so in last curve of race), pingu was 4.637 sec behind me...
so pingu was slower ~3.2sec/7 laps=~0.46 sec per lap circa...
so he woulda finished, including my mistake, around 5*0.46-1.5+4.637=5.437 sec behind me, without making another pitstop just for hunting the fastest lap. something like that.

so..instead of 10.x sec behind, pingu woulda been only around 5.4 sec behind me, maybe.

2)

in monaco i crashed in curve 2 and let all pass..(so i got 15th, 14 to let pass)
i was behind 8 sec and 10th after lap 1
9 sec behind, place 9 lap 2 or so
10 sec behind, place 8 lap 3

in spa there were only 13 players (12 to let pass)
so something under 8 sec + 1 sec/overtake from ~10th place on sounds like a bit of an accurate formula for an accurate punishment. maybe put some safety 1-3 sec bonus punishment or so.

so..my suggestion:

a) (2 considered only)

Mike Nike pos 1 (time: 27:06.811, 36 laps)
Pingu pos 2 (time: 27:17.769, 36 laps)
Doman pos 3 (time: 27:24.345, 36 laps)
Wokinger pos 4 (time: 27:24.563, 36 laps)
JonnO pos 5 (time: 27:31.006, 36 laps)
KryHmen pos 6 (time: 27:38.068, 36 laps)

punish: 8 sec + overtaken place 9,8,7,6,5 = 5 sec => 13 sec

Mike Nike pos 1 (time: 27:06.811, 36 laps)
Doman pos 2 (time: 27:24.345, 36 laps)
Wokinger pos 3 (time: 27:24.563, 36 laps)
Pingu pos 4 (time: 27:30.769, 36 laps)
JonnO pos 5 (time: 27:31.006, 36 laps)

a.2) with bonus safety of +-2sec, pingu even gets only place 5

b) (1 and 2 considered)

Mike Nike pos 1 (time: 27:06.811, 36 laps)
Pingu pos 2 (time: 27:12.248, 36 laps) [5.437sec behind]
Doman pos 3 (time: 27:24.345, 36 laps)
Wokinger pos 4 (time: 27:24.563, 36 laps)
JonnO pos 5 (time: 27:31.006, 36 laps)

punish: 8 sec + overtaken place 9,8,7,6,5 = 5 sec => 13 sec

Mike Nike pos 1 (time: 27:06.811, 36 laps)
Doman pos 2 (time: 27:24.345, 36 laps)
Wokinger pos 3 (time: 27:24.563, 36 laps)
Pingu pos 4 (time: 27:25.548, 36 laps) [kinda close to 2nd place]
JonnO pos 5 (time: 27:31.006, 36 laps)

b.2) even with bonus safety: place 4



so: all in all: from my point of view, a similar punishment for pingu with the result that pingu gets only points for place 4 and doman+wokinger move up to 2 and 3, sounds actually kinda fair to me. probably pingu woulda kicked his and your a**es and would have managed to get place 3 and 2, if letting all pass, because he was maybe not pushing like i did in ~2nd half of the race (and lol i did not cruise, check my laptimes with high damage, they actually got close to the laps right after pitting)

@ Mike

For me, your calculations totally make no sense. You can't predict what could happened. Fighting at the end of the pack is always very hard, especially on first few laps.

They probably do I think, the result would be the same I woulda probably became 4th since Jonno also started at the back. And 1 sec per car is alot, comparing the midfield was way slower this race.

Maybe rerun so I can let all pass at the start ?

I will always disagree with punishing in order to manipulate to a certain, desired result. Punishments should be standardized. In SCARTS, we use the same amount as a drive thru penalty at that track, or simple penalties like +5, +10 seconds, or for severe problems to the end of the lead lap. Penalties should be blind to what position the person who is being penalized ends up in..

In this case, I haven't seen replay so won't comment on Pingu being penalized or not..

@Woki

Wokinger napisał:Nie widziałem sytuacji, ale czasem lepiej przycisnąć, przejechać trudny fragment i dopiero później puścić.

Twoje własne słowa. Nie chciałem powtórki z Australii. Zauważ, że za chwilę cię puściłem.

arsen36 napisał:@Woki

Wokinger napisał:Nie widziałem sytuacji, ale czasem lepiej przycisnąć, przejechać trudny fragment i dopiero później puścić.

Twoje własne słowa. Nie chciałem powtórki z Australii. Zauważ, że za chwilę cię puściłem.

Ale przecież wystarczyło, że zamiast jechać po zewnętrznej jechałbyś po wewnętrznej i wtedy nie straciłbym na dublowaniu. Z dwojga złego oczywiście, że postąpiłeś lepiej przyciskając mocniej.

Shyguy1001 napisał:I will always disagree with punishing in order to manipulate to a certain, desired result. Punishments should be standardized. In SCARTS, we use the same amount as a drive thru penalty at that track, or simple penalties like +5, +10 seconds, or for severe problems to the end of the lead lap. Penalties should be blind to what position the person who is being penalized ends up in..

In this case, I haven't seen replay so won't comment on Pingu being penalized or not..

Regulamin f1sl09:
"3.7.13. Możliwe kary do nałożenia na kierowcę:
- ostrzeżenie (3 ostrzeżenia = kara drive through w następnym wyścigu)
- doliczenie do czasu końcowego wielokrotności 5 sekund
- start z końca stawki w wyścigu (w przypadku przewinien w trakcie kwalifikacji)
- dyskwalifikacja kierowcy w jednym lub kilku wyścigach, w skrajnych przypadkach dyskwalifikacja na cały sezon
- inne, stosowne do wielkości przewinienia i przeszłości gracza (tj. surowsze dla recydywistów)"

Hehe good, so adding 8 seconds is illegal, it must be 5 or 10? This makes sense and makes sure penalties are blind to position change.